of the greatest leaders of our time. at 6:00 a.m. on the east coast, many of our nbc stations will cut away for their own local programming to -- >> as 6:00 a.m. on the east coast approaches many of the stations will cut away for their own local programming but will rejoin us when president obama begins his remarks. you're looking at live pictures from soweto, south africa, state memorial service for former president nelson mandela. it's been raining there all morning long but the mood can only be described as jubilant, world leaders and tens and how to sands of south africans came to pay their respect to a man who helped free the chains of apartheid. many have been struck by the outpouring of emotion not just mourning but celebrations,

dancing. the joy is said to be infectious inside the stadium and it's fitting that the service is being held at fnb stadium where nelson mandela made his final appearance. the memorial has been under way for two hours that include tributes from world leaders, including president obama who was just seen. we'll take the president's comments in full as soon as they happen. and good morning, everyone, it is tuesday, december 10th, welcome to "morning joe." we'll be following the funeral, memorial services all morning long. with us on set, we have the host of msnbc's politics nation and president to the national action network reverend al sharpton joining us this morning. visiting professor at nyu, former democratic congressman harold ford jr. in washington, correspondent for bloomberg, julianna goldman.

we have a big show today. the actor who standard in the new film of "mandela:long walk to freedom." reverend al, you've been watching the service. beautiful. >> it's beautiful and a real tribute we won't see the likes of in our lifetime. to see people gather, heads of states from around the world, world figures, people of all denominations and religions. and to come right there to soweto. you know, the stadium is right at the edge of soweto, and i was in south africa as an election observer in '94 so i went to soweto. it's unimaginable for those who came way before i even got involved to soweto which was the black township to host this but

then it is so befitting because that's what mandela did is open up south africa to the world, and to democracy. so it is a fitting tribute that's unprecedented. >> very symbolic. willy gift it willie geist it's amazing how they pulled this together so quickly. world leaders from all around the earth have descended upon soweto. we have former presidents and president obama who we're waiting on right now, but what a production to make it happen. >> all you can think of as you watch this is what a life. what a life. only 40 years ago in that country south africa put him in prison for who he was and what he believed and what he spoke about. less than four years later there's an overflowing stadium both black and white cheering

and celebrating his life. it's an incredible statement of where that country has gone. >> julianna to the point of security concerns, the white house scrambling to make it all happen. >> the white house certainly not a cake run for the secret service here, mika. look, i think there are some 90 some world leaders who are joining the ceremony today compared to 70 with the pope's funeral. a lot had to scramble to come together to coordinate airspace, motorcades. it's really just a dance and it has to be choreographed quite smoothly and we're seeing with the delays the president only arriving just a short time ago just how everything really does need to fit so seamlessly together. >> it has. >> i heard president clinton say something earlier in the week, he said you think about the great champions, those who were martyred in the 20th century for

their short lives and what they attributed to after their lives and you think about nelson mandela and we celebrate him because of his life. you think about how he lived his life and how he conducted himself and how he provided a model for leadership for leaders across the globe. a remarkable life. i share your sentiment, reverend. we may not see an individual treated like this at his funeral but someone more deserving of a tribute that he's receiving. >> we shouldn't gloss over quickly with you quoting president clinton saying because one of the many things that i think showed the greatness of nelson mandela is he lived a long life and never underminded the greatness of his life.

he lived to 95 and never undermine the greatness and achievement. sometimes we see people at their peak and as they get older they tend to undermine the things we admire. >> the tradition we come from -- >> there's bill clinton. >> joe and i would. >> exactly. we're going to be waiting for the president to speak and get to other news. real quickly, the symbolic nature on many levels on hearing from president obama. >> i think the symbolic value is that what nelson mandela fought for building a rainbow nation represented when barack obama, the president of the united states stands up there, a young man who started his political and policy career marching as a foot soldier around anti-apartheid and now comes as

the head of the free world. it's befitting, it shows achievement and something that nelson mandela would be most proud of. >> i got to tell few. i love the picture of the presidents over there bringing both parties together. george w. bush, a man yesterday we were talking about who actually as a president who did more for africa than any other president. >> that's right. >> which is a legacy. part of that bush legacy you don't hear but you have three presidents down there in george w. bush and bill clinton and barack obama who i think represent us very well especially at this time. >> absolutely. you know, you go back to the relationship that mandela had with all these men and how personal it seemed with all of them when president obama came out on thursday and made his statement in the briefing room. when we learned the death of nelson mandela we can learn how personal it was. sometimes they come out with a statement we're saddened by the loss of foreign leader x but

this man meant so much on a personal level. >> you see them talking right there. all those presents. >> all in one shot, hillary clinton, george w. bush, bill clinton, standing in the rain in soweto in the stadium where nelson mandela is being remembered by tens of thousands from around the world. >> it was interesting, reverend al, during the iraq war where united states approval ratings were dropping in south africa they were steady and going up because of the renewed focus on struggle, especially aids in south africa that george w. bush and other people put on that country. >> there's no doubt. obviously it's not disputed that george bush did a lot around aids in africa more than any other president. we can argue about other issues. i think that the fact that the andy poling numbers didn't go

down in africa even though mandela openly opposed the war in iraq. >> by the way, there are some quotes that i saw buzz feed, andrew put it up on the buzz feed some quotes of nelson mandela over the past decade that were conspicuously absent on american media because he had some harsh things to say about the united states during that time. >> yeah, he did. he really came down on a lot of american policy and he was very much, in my opinion, adamant that i don't know would be harsh. he was right. >> not all the things he said. >> i probably have to review them but i think of this day of memorial we respect that mr. mandela had very strong opinions that many of us that are progressive would agree. >> okay. we're going to be following this

beautiful memorial service throughout the morning. we're going to take the president's remarks live which could happen in the next hour or so, maybe even less. we're waiting for one more speaker and then the president will dome the podium. but now some other news. republicans on capitol hill are bracing to push a last minute budget deal through congress. paul ryan and patty murray are close to striking a small deal that would avoid another fiscal showdown but far from the great bargain. it wouldn't reform entitlements or tax loopholes or address the rising federal debt but replace some sequester cuts. tomorrow is the last day the bill could be filed in the house which would be a friday vote. congressman nick mulvaney said, i'm resigned to the fact that fiscal conservatives always lose

at christmas. >> we also lose at easter. our leadership will pass horrible things and then they will say we dare you to stop everybody from going home for easter. we stopped them from going home for easter in 1997 and now i know why that's hard to do. >> i thought they were okay with the sequester. i'm confused. >> the cuts. the budget cuts. >> i thought they were for that. >> especially on defense are getting a lot tougher. >> right. >> this go around. >> so, going on with the quote, will i trade a dollar worth of sequester savings today for a dollar worth of mandatory savings ten years from now? no way in hell. that being said would i trade a dollar's worth of savings for the future, maybe. >> i think it will pass.

what they are bothered about is paul ryan and patty murray are saying we'll add extra money now but take care of it ten years from now. that never comes to fruition. conservatives are getting ready to get rolled. this will pass. it doesn't stop the people at heritage from being frustrated. if you want to talk about save money, save money in the next two or three years. >> well, we've seen this play over and over again and if you're not close to this or follow this like some of us "around the table" do, you have to wonder why can't they just reach a compromise? it's obvious republicans want entitlement cuts and reforms. democrats want more revenue. why can't they come together and reach some agreement like adults should. the fact we're celebrating this milestone if we can call it that between murray and ryan is representative of where we are

not only in washington but where adults are in washington in trying to get things done. look, i don't like this. they haven't gone far enough. they haven't gone far enough to face the crisis we faced a few weeks ago. as a democrat i'm thankful the fellow whose quotes you put up is in the minority position. we don't want to go down the path we went down. >> republicans are tired of what happened. they don't want a repeat of what happened before. at the same time we're very worried about a $17 trillion debt. we're worried about the fact that even as the deficit drops long term debt obligations explode. >> if you were there you would try to work out a deal. listening to that comment is representative of where a lot of tea party members are which seems to be unwilling to give a little bit to get something that they may want in the long term. your approach is different. >> i'm not sure what his

approach is. but the lunacy of all this is medicare and medicaid is what explodes and 20 years from now takes up every dime of our revenue and we got to figure out a smart, humane way to take care of people who retire 20 years from now so they have medicare, medicaid and social security. >> in texas there's a new tea party favorite hoping to join ted cruz. steve stockman announced he will challenge incumbent -- >> steve stockman. i know him. he's the guy that brings ted nugent to the state of the union address. >> i'll challenge john cornyn. stockman was not expected to do this. he with drew his election for the house and with drew his candidacy before the 6:00 p.m. dead lynn. he said he's running because

cornyn undermine ted cruz's fight for obama care. he said it looked like cruz was right and cornyn was wrong. he made a big show of removing his name from a letter supporting cruz. he needs to be held accountable for his decisions. with the republican primary three months away cornyn holds a significant advantage financially with $7 million cash on hand. stockman has 32,000. >> in this war, willie, i don't think this is a wise move for a guy. i'm sure the tea party people didn't tell him to run. here's another example of another race that the quote tea party candidate lost. a lot of tea party members said that guy wasn't one of us, he was a member of the kook party.

i don't know. >> it's amazing that senator john cornyn -- >> oh, my lord. >> it's not a plausible argument. steve stockman is right to run. his case that john cornyn is not a real conservative -- >> cruz refused about six months ago to come out and say he would support the re-election efforts of john cornyn. so that's -- >> what does that mean given the argument. former vice president dick cheney looking ahead to 2016 and the prospects of chris christie. >> i think lichristie is a promising figure. he has to do a lot of work to earn the nomination just like anybody else. >> do you think he would blow up on the campaign trail, his

temper would blow him up? >> i don't know. i don't know him that well. i had lunch with him once. i watched him operate. i wasn't a fan of the way he welcomed barack obama to new jersey when the hurricane hit. >> he said he had to. >> he was the governor of new jersey and he was doing what he thought was necessary. >> you think he overdid it? >> i would have preferred -- i don't know that he had any other choice in terms of what he was supposed to be doing for people of new jersey. like all of us, we carry what we have done in the past around with us and you have to explain it and support it. >> i don't understand. he wasn't a fan of what he did in new jersey in the same sentence he had to do it. why didn't he just support him? i don't get it. >> because he's the greatest vice president of all time. >> that was a dog whistle or something. >> i think sometimes -- >> does he help your party?

right now -- >> that wasn't very helpful. >> it's so funny about dick cheney. the press paints him as a demon. he had low approval ratings. lot of americans were like me they were glad cheney was there after 9/11. >> does he help your party? >> what did he say that would hurt our party. >> if he becomes the face of the party for 2016 -- >> dick cheney will not be the face of the party. >> if he's the voice. >> he won't be the voice. he's on fox business news. >> if he's the he woulder statesman, if you have to get his blessing, if tease one that has to stand up there and evaluate the christies -- >> i'm a democrat. i'm not the guy to answer this question. i like dick cheney a lot. >> that was speaking out of both sides of his mouth. >> i'm the wrong guy to ask that

question. this is what i would love. i would love to have a party where dick cheney is an he woulder statesman and colin powell is an he woulder statlde. we had both wings of the republican party. >> he was speaking out of both sides of his mouth. >> i think if the party did that you need to get the popcorn out of the smile. that's your party. >> did you not see the democrats yesterday fighting like bobcats on this set. we were talking about a story about democratic infighting and then they denied there's democratic fighting and then howard dean and steve rattner fought like bobcats. >> you won't let me speak because you know i'm right.

okay. >> watching democrats fight like that. >> sitting back with a slurpee and popcorn. >> i saw the former vice president -- i like him very much. it's a great disclaimer. but there's something dishonest about that. >> what? >> there was something dishonest. >> come on he's a politician. >> you are so clear -- it is so easy for to you criticize the president vigorously and to use descriptions of, you know, things that he said that are -- why can't you -- >> my problem -- mika, my problem really has been that i haven't criticized republicans on this show. is that what you're suggesting? >> christie doesn't deserve. >> republicans can give you a long laundry list of republicans identify attacked. that's dumb. much ado about nothing.

you see dick cheney and you go crazy. i think you have a crush on him. you like that strong forceful guy, a daddy figure. i think there's -- >> should i punch him. >> in your rolls royce you roll down and look up at the cheney household, a powerful man. >> that's just off the rails. >> anybody? >> what just happened? >> i'm not sure we went there. >> she has a crush on him. >> i do like him very much. >> see there. >> but that was speaking out of both sides of his mouth. >> you lost me with the rolls royce. >> my mom drives a white pickup truck. it's a really old one. >> what is matt lauer doing? i saw some fu man chu thing. >> he had a bushey beard and he knocked it down.

>> did you guys know john podesta is back. to politics. >> i'll pass. >> pass that on. >> has lewis bergdorf taken that off? has lewis taken that off? >> he's jumped the shark. >> he has a mustache. >> it looks like this. >> he shaved that. >> just a mustache now. >> just the mustache. >> look at alex. >> alex knows i'm -- >> i hear john podesta is back in the news. >> looking to get his administration back on track after the questionable roll out of obama care. the president has convince ad close ally to return to washington. the "new york times" report that john podesta has agreed to serve

as counsel to the president for one year. he led the president's transition team in 2008 and advised the president from the outside ever since. he also served as bill clinton's chief of staff for three years but now podesta will be in charge of bringing credibility back to the obama administration. 53% of americans think president obama is dishonest and four in ten think he can manage the federal government. podesta will help with issues like obama care and other issues. >> julianna, it's what people have been especially democrats on the hill have been clamoring to get people back in the white house that have experience. that looks like a great step. >> if you look at the other news trickled out over the past 72 hours, you have bill schillero

coming back. now you have john podesta coming in. he'll take a counselor role overseeing health care, climate issues. one thing you hear from people, criticism often of this white house is that there's so many smart experienced people who just want to give advice and they are so insular they close themselves off to that kind of advice and podesta is positioned to do that. podesta has maintained that independence being part of the obama orbit but not directly inside. so he's going to be able to bring that perspective, those fresh ideas and the experience of having worked in a crisis mode at the white house and been around for a really long time and that's something that's really missing in there right

now. >> harold ford, personally for the president i think that's a great move. >> this is a smart addition. you bring an experienced deal maker to the white house. one of the shortcomings and deficiencies in washington there's an unwillingness on the democratic side and republican side to find agreement. podesta understands government works best when it works and the only way it works you achieve results. everybody has to give a little to get things moving. >> knows all the players in washington. they know him. republicans like me, we've been around through the clinton wars and everything else. he's always on the other side but, man, i like him. you can tell he likes people. and reverend al, you need that when you're making a deal. >> you're going to move forward. >> whether you're on capitol hill or the white house. >> if you're moving forward and the president is trying to establish his legacy and salvage whatever has been tarnished you

need a guy like podesta that can move the ball and is not a hard ideologue. at this stage a good choice. >> we'll go back to soweto, south africa to the stadium where standing in the rain tens of thousands of people are celebrating the life of nelson mandela. you can see they are waving flags, dancing in the stands. it's not really mourning but more a celebration of his life and the music has certainly symbolized that. president obama is due to speak any moment. you see him getting ready there. we've heard from nelson mandela's grandchildren, we've heard from someone who served prison time with him. we've heard from members of his family and world leaders, from france, from 90 countries including several former presidents of the united states are on hand to celebrate nelson

mandela's life. and now president barack obama will take to the stage and the will remember nelson mandela himself. we're going to take his remarks live as he greets people and makes his way to the stage. this moment is so poignant because, of course, the president spoke of his personal connection with nelson mandela moments after he died over the weekend at the age of 95 years old. >> julianna, willie geist was talking about how the white house reacted after mandela's death, it wasn't just -- they didn't just paint by numbers, kou tell that this really was a very personal connection that president obama felt with nelson mandela. >> that's right. i think of all the speeches that the president has given on a personal level this is the most important for him and it's my understanding that he spent a lot of time on his own crafting this speech and thinking about it.

look, when we were in south africa in june we were waiting for any moment to get word that mandela had passed away. he was gravely ill at the time. this is something the president has been thinking about obviously for years and years. what a moment for him to be essentially eulogyizing his personal hero who inspired his own political activism. he didn't know that well. they met one time. spoke a few times over phone. but they are so bound by history. >> and reverend al, you were talking before about the problems that barack obama was having right now. mandela, as mandela said time and time again he made mistakes, he was a sinner but the bigger picture of mandela, the one that my children and your children and our grandchildren will read about and know about, will look at a remarkable place in

history. i have a feeling that 50 years from now very few people will be talking about barack obama's struggles with obama care, but if stead talk about the remarkable historic place he has in the united states of america's history. >> i think you're right. i think, you know, the gauge a lot of people use what will it matter 100 years from now. i think all of the infighting, all of the attacks that nelson mandela went through doesn't matter in the span of history and the same will happen with barack obama as president of the united states and i think that's what he'll speak to this morning at the funeral of nelson mandela, where he places in history, where he places in terms of the curve of where we saw a nation that was divided and split based on race and

based on other factors that really undergirded apartheid and what nelson mandela did to help bring the country forward. all the other stuff doesn't matter. that's where leaders on that stage have to try to govern from. >> he's on that stage now about to eulogyize a man that the whole world will be talking about for so many years to coso. it's been a remarkable transformation and remarkable transformation for our government. bobby kennedy in 1966 went to johannesburg and he had his own state department and had his own

justice department and had lbj enraged he would go out and speak out against apartheid. the united states has been on the wrong side of this issue for a very long time. >> they just announced the president. >> but now you have the president of the united states stepping up there to address the crowd in memory of this great man. [ cheers ] >> thank you. thank you so much. thank you.

to the mandela family, to the president and members of the government, to heads of state and government past and present, distinguished guests, it is a singular honor for to be with you today to celebrate a life like no other. to the people of south africa -- [ cheers ] -- people of every race and every walk of life, the world thanks you for sharing the nelson mandela with us. his struggle was your struggle. his triumph was your triumph.

where dignity and your hope found expression in his life and your freedom, your democracy is his cherished legacy. it is hard to eulogize any man to capture in words not just the facts and the dates that make a life. but the essential truth of a person, the private joys and sorrows, the cry of moments and inequalities that illuminate somebody's soul. how much harder to do so for a giant of history who moved a nation towards justice and in the process moved billions around the world.

mourned during world war i, fired from the corners of power, raised herding cattle, madiba would emerge as the last great liberator of the 20th century. like gandhi he would lead a resistance movement, a movement that at its start had little prospect for success. like dr. king, he would give voice to the claims of the oppressed and the moral necessity of racial justice. he would endure a brutal imprisonment that began in the time of kennedy and khruschchev and reached the final days of the cold war emerging from prison without the force of arms he would like abraham lincoln hold his country together when

it threatened to break apart and like america's founding fathers he would erect a constitutional order to preserve freedom for future generations. a commitment to democracy and rule of law, ratified not only by his election but his willingness to step down from power after only one term. [ cheers ] given the sweep of his life, the scope of his accomplishments, the adoration that he so rightly earned, it's tempting, i think, to remember nelson mandela as an icon, smiling and serene, detached from the tawdry affairs of lesser men. but madiba himself strongly resisted such a life.

[ cheers ] instead, madiba insisted on sharing with us his doubts and his fears, his miscalculations along with his victories. i am not a saint, he said, unless you think of a saint as a sinner who keeps on trying. it was precisely because he could admit to imperfection. because he could be so full of good humor, even mischief, despite the heavy burdens that he carried that we loved him so. he was not a bust made of marble, he was a man of flesh and blood. a son. a husband. a father and a friend. and that's why we learned so

much from him and that's why we can learn from him still. for nothing he achiefed was inevitable. in the arc of his life he earned his place in history through struggle, shrudness and struggle and faith. he tells us what is possible not justin pages of history books but in our own lives as well. mandela showed us the power of action, of taking risks on behalf of our ideals. perhaps mandela was right that he inherited a proud rebelliousness, a stubborn sense of fairness from his father, and we know he shared with millions of black and colored south africans the anger born of a thousand slights, a thousand

indignities, a thousand unremembered moments, a desire to fight the prison that imprisoned my people. but like other giants of the anc -- [ cheers ] -- madiba disciplined his anner and chanld hinelled his desire fight in strategies and platforms so men and women could stand up for their god given dignity. moreover he accepted the consequences of his actions. knowing that standing up to powerful interests and injustice carries a price. i fought against white domination and i fought against black domination.

i cherish the ideal of a democratic and free society. in which all persons live together in harmony and equal opportunities. it is an ideal which i hope to live for and to achieve, but if an ideal for which i'm prepared to die. [ cheers ] mandela taught us the power of action but also taught us the power of ideas. the importance of reason and arguments. the importance of to only study not only who you agree with but those who you don't degree with. he under stood ideas can't be contained by prison walls or extinguished by a sniper's bullet. he turned his trial into an

indictment of apartheid because of his eloquence and passion but because of his training as an advocate. he used decades of-- prison to sharpen his arguments. he learned the language and the customs of his oppressors so one day he might better convey to them how their own freedom depend upon his. [ cheers ] mandela demonstrated that action that ideas are not enough no matter how right they must also be chiselled in the law and institutions. he was practical. testing his beliefs against the hard surface of circumstance and history. encore principles he was unyielding which is why he could

rebuff offers of unconditional release reminding apartheid regime prisoners cannot enter into contracts, but as he showed in pain staking negotiations, to transfer power and draft new laws he was not afraid to compromise for the sake of a larger goal. and because he was not only a leader of a movement but a skillful politician, the constitution that emerged was worthy of this multiracial democracy. true to his vision of laws that protect minority as well as majority rights. and the precious freedoms of every south african. and finally, mandela understood the ties that bind the human spirit. there's a word in south afri africa -- a word that captures

mandela's greatest gift. his recognition that we are all bound together in ways that are invisible to the eye. that there's a oneness to humanity. that we achieve ourselves by sharing ourselves with others and caring for those around us. we can never know how much of this sense was innate in himself but we remember the gesture, large and small, introducing his jailers as honored guests at his inauguration, taking a pitch in a spring box uniform, turning his family's heartbreak into a call for hiv/aids that' revealed

the depths of his empathy and understanding. he not only embodied -- he taught millions to find that truth within themselves. it took a man like madiba to free not just the prisoner but the jailer as well. to show you must trust others so that they may trust you. to teach that reconciliation is not a matter of ignoring a cruel past but a means of confronting it with inclusion and generosity and truth. he changed laws but he also changed hearts. for the people of south africa, for those he inspired around the globe, madiba's passing is rightly a time of mourning and a

time to celebrate a heroic life. but i believe it should also prompt in each of us a time for self-reflection with honesty regardless of our station or our circumstance we must ask how well have i applied his lessons in my own life. it's a question i ask myself, as a man and as a president. we know that like south africa the united states had to overcome centuries of racial subjugation. as was true here it took sacrifice, sacrifices of countless people, known and unknown to see the dawn of a new day. michele and i are beneficiaries of that struggle.

but in america and in south africa and in countries all around the globe we cannot allow our progress to cloud the fact that our work is not yet done. the struggles that follow the victory that form equality for universal franchise may not be as filled with drama and moral clarity as those that came before but they are no less important. for around the world today we still see children suffering from hunger and disease. we still see run down schools. we still see young people without prospects for the future. around the world today men and women are still in prison for their political beliefs and are still persecuted for what they look like and how they worship and who they love, that is happening today.

[ cheers ] and so we too must act on behalf of justice. we too must act on behalf of peace. too many people happily embrace madiba's reconciliation but passively resist reforms that challenge poverty and growing inequality. there are too many leaders who claim solidarity with madiba's struggle for freedom but do not tolerate dissent from their own people. [ cheers ] there are too many of us, too many of us on the sidelines comfortable in complacency or cynicism when our voices must be heard.

the questions we face today, how to promote equality and justice, how to uphold freedom and human rights, how to end conflict and sectarian war, these things do not have easy answers. but there are no easy answers in front of that child born in world war i. nelson mandela reminds us that it always seems impossible until it is done. south africa shows that is true. south africa shows we can change. that we can choose a world define not by our differences but by our common hope. we can choose a world defined not by conflict but by peace and justice. and opportunity.

we will never see the likes of nelson mandela again. but let me say to the young people of africa and the young people around the world, you too can make his life's work your o own. over 30 years ago while still a student the struggles of this land stirred soimething in me. it set me on an improbable journey that finds me here today. and while i will always fall short of madiba's example, he makes me want to be a better man.

he speaks to what's best inside us. after this great liberator is laid to rest, and when we return to our cities and villages, and rejoin our daily routines, let us search for his strength. let us search for his largeness of spirit somewhere inside of ourselves. when the night grows dark, when injustice weighs heavy on our hearts, when our best laid plans seem beyond our reach, let us think of madiba and the words that brought him comfort within the four walls of his cell. it matters not how straight the gate, how charged the punishment

the scroll, i am the master of my fate, i am the captain of my soul, what a magnificent soul it was. we will miss him deeply. may god bless the memory of nelson mandela. may god bless the people of south africa. [ cheers ] >> that was president barack obama capturing the legacy of nelson mandela before a celebratory crowd of tens of thousands of people. he spoke of mandela's legacy of reconciliation, of inclusion, of struggle. the president saying michele and i are beneficiaries of that struggle. he also spoke of the struggle that still lies ahead. he called mandela a great liberator, and president obama saying he makes me want to be a better man. reverend al? >> i thought it was a powerful

address by the president. he recounted the struggles. he recounted how nelson mandela had to rise above the adversities 27 years in jail. and yet he was not afraid to compromise. he was practical as much as he was visionary. and i think the president made it clear that we have not arrived yet. we still have to deal with issues of economic and racial inequality in our world and he challenged those world leaders sitting on that stage don't just memorialize mandela but do what mandela challenged us to do. i thought it was a great address. i think he did not just get caught up in the drama of the memorial, he challenged the leaders of today to let's be about it not just talk about it today and go home and ignore the continuing inequality in our own nations. i thought it was a powerful message. >> still many more speakers at

this memorial service in so wet jo. we'll be following that but there's other news as well. coming up on "morning joe," illinois governor pat quinn. thomas friedman, chuck todd and idris elba who plays nelson mandela in a new film. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] how can power consumption in china, impact wool exports from new zealand, textile production in spain, and the use of medical technology in the u.s.? at t. rowe price, we understand the connections of a complex, global economy. it's just one reason over 70% of our mutual funds beat their 10-year lipper average. t. rowe price. invest with confidence. request a prospectus or summary prospectus with investment information, risks, fees and expenses

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♪ he suffered the consequences of his actions, knowing that standing up to powerful interests and injustice carries a price. i fought against white domination and i fought against black domination. i cherish the ideal of a democratic and free society in which all persons live together in harmony and equal opportunities. it is an ideal which i hope to live for and to achieve, but it is an ideal for which i'm prepared to die. >> top of the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." that was just moments ago, president obama speaking at the celebration of nelson mandela's life in soweto, south africa. joining the table editor and

chief of the daily beast, tina brown. >> what was your response to the president's moving speech? >> i thought it was a terrifically powerful speech and it just is one of those moments on the world stage where leaders can redefine their own commitment to what they think as well as celebrating and eulogizing a great man that departed. these are things that come up suddenly in the national agenda which gives an opportunity to make those commitments again. obama did that. >> harold, that had to give him a nice charge after all the mundane legislative battles and all the gridlock in washington, d.c., what a wonderful opportunity for him as a man and as a politician to go and eulogize a man that he so revered. >> someone who the president has acknowledged inspired his entry in the public and private service life not only rewarding for those of us who listened and

inspired by him had to be reward forge the president to make as we said in church testify. >> especially after this year, when it's all been about being a derailed presidency. >> julianna, you covered the president every day at the white house. who was your take on the president's speech? >> talk about a book to end a speech that you give in college, right? he said that his speech in 1981, when he was at occidental is what brought it about and this speech that the president gave today was addressed not just to the people of south africa, not just to the world but also as the reverend was saying earlier to the dignitaries there to apply to it the challenges of the 21st century, eradicating

hunger and intolerance. also to some members of congress who are representing the u.s. delegation there as well. >> i really can't think of a more fitting, really to put a book end on what you were saying, tina, return to what he wanted his presidency to be about in terms of concept. >> it's bean humiliating year and he's not able to -- he's not at least try to reshape his persona, his beliefs, as you say his inner self as well as his outer self. >> and define where he's trying to go. i mean sometimes you can lose sight, the public, of what the presidency is about. i think in eulogizing mandela he also refocused this is my end game whether you agree with it or not and i think that's very important.

and then challenged as i said before the other world leaders, where is your end game, what your going to do, not just memorialize mandela. >> what's fascinating to see what comes out of this as well. there will be encounters and discussions. what's going to happen back stage where few people feel re-energized. >> going there and talking, mika, about as he did, the president talking about how nelson mandela, which we marvelled at all along, he constantly was reaching out, trying to find a middle ground. even with his jailers, even with the people that jailed him for 27 years, when he was sworn in as president he insisted on having them sitting on the front row. that has to send a powerful message to president obama as he comes back and realizes he's now

got 2 1/2 years left of governing and the question is how will he spend 2 1/2 years. ingrid lock with republicans? yes. they do not like him. he does not like them. is he going to borrow from nelson mandela's playbook and do the extraordinary and take a chance by stepping across an aisle and trying once again to come to an agreement, whether it's on the budget, whether it's on the immigration deal, whether it's about, on a variety of issues, on health care, a better way to do health care. ate good question. >> who will be his f.w. de klerk. he need his partner too. >> you got a couple hundred to choose from in the house. right now you got paul ryan and patty murray striking a budget deal. i think republicans, especially republicans who are up in 2014 in the senate understand americans are ready for washington to work.

so disgusted by washington. >> let's go there. we've still got more on the program on soweto and we'll be watching that event as it happens and dip in if necessary. but in washington republicans on capitol hill are bracing to push a last minute budget deal through congress before their winter recess. congressman paul ryan and senator patty murray are close to striking a deal, a small deal that would avoid another fiscal showdown yet far from the grand bargain. the proposal would not reform entitlements or tax loopholes and would do nothing to address the rising federal debt but it would replace some of the sequester cuts. tomorrow is the last day the bill could be filed in the house setting up congress for a friday vote which could limit the amount of conservative dissent. as congressman nick mulvany points out i'm resigned to the fact that fiscal conservatives

always lose at christmas. will i trade a dollar worth of sequester savings today for a dollar worth of mandatory savings 10 years from now? no way in hell. that being said would i trade dollar's worth of savings today for four or six or eight dollars of savings in the future? yeah, maybe. >> conservatives always know if they tell you they are going to give the cuts ten years from now, the cuts never come. >> yeah. >> and so i think it's very interesting. you'll find people on the left and on the right that won't like this budget deal that patty murray and paul ryan come to but they will come to it because they already said, tina, they won't shut down the government again. >> they have to. the fact is that nobody can stand it, i think, going forward for this next two years we'll have this kind of gridlock. it's been a year of paralysis which is demoralizing for be everybody in congress and the

nation. there has to be a re-energizing motor to take it forward. >> how do we get to a point where people are working on a long term deal? >> i like the idea of a long term. what i would like even more. if they would go back and just do the basic blocking and tackling that congress has done for 220 years, 230 years that harold and i did when we were there. work the committees. you start, pass a bill through committee and get it on the floor and then it passes the house and then i want goes to the senate. i mean, they don't have regular order any more so what they do, harold, of course, you just have two or three leaders talking amongst themselves. they go behind closed doors and then they strike the deal themselves. tina, you said members of congress were frustrated. everybody, you know, everybody is frustrated. because two or three members are

going, leaders going behind closed doors and they are deciding all of this stuff and members don't even get a chance to read it. that's been going forn three years and it's outrageous. >> unfortunately, that's become the model to get significant things done. they are not getting significant things done so perhaps returning to regular order might be a way in which to achieve things tina laid out. murray and ryan deserve some credit because many people few weeks ago thought they might not even reach a small term deal. the fact they got us here, it tells you where we are, we're applauding it. i tell you, frank lie i wouldn't be that upset if both extreme wings of the democratic party and republican party voted against that because it would marginalize that group. it might help us get who would be the leaders on the republican side. maybe paul ryan and others emerge as those voices and those people. let's get this deal done and hopefully the president will come back and want to work with

some republicans and those republicans in turn will want to work with him as well. >> patty murray has been very impressive. a lot of women are springing a lot of practicality and outreach as well. >> a lot of people thought she couldn't do this. >> let's bring in chuck todd. chuck where do you think this is going? >> i can't believe we're about to praise them for doing the most incremental smallest tiniest, congratulations, you didn't shut down the government. hallelujah. this is the smallest of deals. they didn't make any tough choice. they left the tough choices off table. this was a surrender negotiation for both sides in a weird way. nobody is winning or losing. but what i mean -- >> how did democrats surrender?

>> because they are basically fighting for -- all they are fighting for is unemployment and extension at this point. that's about all they are fighting for. they are not standing any ground on closing loopholes, they are not trying to figure out a way to take sequester, which supposedly is something everybody hates. and trying to replace it with a closed loophole or something like that with tax loopholes. republicans -- they are surrendering by the fact they are simply saying okay we're not going to talk about any new spending cuts. we can try to -- we can try to replace it a little bit with a fee on airlines. i think that's what they've come up with. but it doesn't feel as if they are doing anything big here. they are not talking about tax reform. they are not talking about a massive way to fix some of these issues at the defense department. it really is just sort of this

status quo negotiation. >> what about unemployment benefits. how will that shake out? $25 billion. republicans insist it gets paid for? >> do i think they are going to insist it gets paid for but it will be in there and pay for it in some way. i assume it comes from the selling of the spectrum and this airline deal. but the fact that that's what we're talking about. >> that's an inside joke. every time you need money we'll sell the spectrum. >> they are disagreeing how much spectrum is worth. that's another issue. >> how do you sell this spectrum, harold? >> you know what is it, joe, you're selling stuff in the air. >> i think chuck is right, i'm not applauding this but the fact that we are -- the fact we are applauding this is telling about where we are.

>> small ball is better than no ball. >> you're saying the same thing. >> i am. >> i think it's amazing. i'm surprised they did it as quickly as they did because this deal probably could have been reached and chuck i would love your thoughts on this a few weeks ago. patty murray who some people thought she was too liberal to achieve a deal with ryan has done something that's been a surprise. >> better than paralysis. >> maybe steps. >> mika, really just about somebody who won't leave. ultimately that's why you love this, there will be so many luminaries. a guy who won't leave the table.

>> joining us, thomas friedman. tom the proposal would not reform entitlement, loopholes or do nothing to address the rising federal debt. i want replaces some sequester cuts. that's amazing, isn't it? >> i was blown away. i drove in through a blizzard to be able to talk about this. >> crazy. take it away. how impressrd you? >> the best that you can say is, i think our system has lost the reflection to reach any kind of an agreement and the fact that, you know, we might be able to begin to restore a little of that, i think is about the best one can say. it certainly is a thin gruel. for republicans to reach any kind of agreement with this administration in the wake of this rising tea party influence which describes any agreement deal making as a form of collaboration, well that's a good thing. you start to puncture that attitude and that resistance.

>> i guess. but who is going to lead us. you're really grasping. usually you got some great symbolic parallel and way forward. >> low expectation year. >> low expectations in washington, d.c. and of course we've been talking over the past couple of weeks unfortunately low expectations in classrooms across america. boy since 2009 and really this is part of a growing trend but since 2009, american kids scores, test scores have plummeted in reading, in math, in science. what's going on? >> well, you know what's going on is partly, you know, what is called the rise of the rest. the rest of the world is catching up. at a time that we've been going sideways. and this is a very bad time, you know, joe, to be going sideways academically, because basically the american middle class for

the 60 years after world war ii was built on something called the high wage middle skilled job. unfortunately, we've gone, i would say, in the last 15 years into a world where there is no such thing any more as a high wage middle skilled job. there's only going to be a high wage high skilled job. skills are ever important. in our last book we talked about average is over. you simply will not be able to maintain an average lifestyle any more without above average skills. so these numbers really matter. >> okay, here's what you write. can't we do better? we're going through a huge technological transformation in the middle of a recession. it requires a systemic response, democrats to protect teachers' unions that block reforms to give teachers more ownership and accountability and who refuse to address long term entitlement

spending that threatens to deprive us of funds to invest in the young are harming our future. republicans who block investments in things like early education and immigration reform, today we educate the world's top talent in our colleges and then send them back to their home countries are harming our future. conservatives need to think differently about the near term safety nets we need to ease some people through this period and liberals need to think more seriously about how we can incentivize and unleash risk takers to start new companies that create growth, wealth and good jobs. to have more employees we need more employers. just redividing a slow growing pie will not sustain the american dream. >> harold? >> tom, harold ford, good morning. how do we incentivize congress to understand these numbers. joe and mika had arne on talking about testing and ensuring our

kids can compete with kids around the globe. how do we get policymakers and particularly those in washington to grasp what you write about not only this time but often? >> harold, i'm a big believer this is a big problem. we've gotten into it over a long period of time. and it takes a comprehensive solution. so, the way i look at it is this way. first of all, you need teachers who are going to be held accountable and at the same time incentivize, you know, for operating classrooms in a way that will lift, you know, these test scores and lift children. that's the first thing. i don't want to in any way depart from that idea. we need to raise the quality of our teaching profession and give teachers ownership over their classrooms. that's what every good school system has. but let's remember something else. we also need good parents. parents who take an interest in

their kids' education every single day and hold them to the highest standard. we need good business leaders, business leaders who care about the jobs in their community and don't just outsource at the first opportunity and therefore care about the schools. we need better neighbors, neighbors who care about what's going on in their public schools even if they don't have kids in them any more. we need better kid. we need kids coming to school ready to learn not text because they understand they are living in a world now where their skills will really, really matter more than ever. >> julianna. >> i guess this white house made outreach to the business community put an emphasis there. what more can they be doing? twhor business leaders they can be reaching out to the leverage some public/private partnerships in this arena? >> we're one of the big problems julianna in the world we're in right now. the american business community, the big global multinationals 20 years ago when i came to

washington would come to washington and obie for big national issue, education reform, infrastructure, the right tax incentives. our global businesses today they are in america but they really just hover over america. they see themselves as global citizens. that constituencies that lobbied for these big national issues i don't see in washington any more. that is a real problem. >> tina? >> tom, i'm fascinated by whether you feel we should now be changing the whole curriculum in schools for older kids. because jack from twitter was on last night and talked about how you can't create new companies or more innovation one less kids are taught how to code. we need to know how to code and that's not being addressed. is that happening in overseas classrooms? >> my daughter last summer taught in a school in oakland at a disadvantaged neighborhood. she taught fifth graders and i

think it was first or second graders how to code. that's definitely in countries like the baltic countries, being able to write code from first or second grade has become part of what is considered literate now. that's the new literacy. the think about the test which i think people forget because i see a lot of reaction -- they do rote learning and we don't do that. the test is to apply math, reading and science. it's not about regurgitaing. it's applying what you know. the business community doesn't care what you know. the google machine knows everything. all they care is what you can do with what you know. >> chuck todd -- >> it seems to me the business community in some ways is there. when i look at this fight over common core it's been an odd -- it's been an odd debate in one way and another way it looks

like every political debate that we have in this country. so you have the business community, you have sort of the washington establishment both democrats and republicans behind this, and yet on the grassroots common core seems to be at risk of being dumped in a lot of states thanks to sort of local parental pressure and this was an attempt to respond to this frankly crisis of where america ranks internationally. if you can't get common core to be a national consensus then how are we ever going to get an education consensus. >> chuck, the world doesn't pay off on effort it pays off on results. i remember when i was working, i interviewed a finnish mother. i said that's really interesting, what's it like to be a finnish mother in washington, d.c. and have your kids in school in america and

she told me a story that stuck in my mind. she said my brother is a professional hockey player in financeland and never won a championship. my two course to are in school here and played soccer and never won a championship either but they have trophies bigger than my brother could even dream about. >> so true. >> you talk to parents now, oh, my god johnny and suzie are too stressed out, they need time for facebook and chill out. here's what stress will be for your kid. stress will be not understanding the thick chinese accent of your first boss. that will be stress. >> wow. now you're on it, friedman. >> i couldn't underscore more, tom, what you're saying about bringing everyone, parents, community, business because unless it is that approach i don't think we make any progress. i remember when the president first game in and newt gingrich

and i went on this tour do you see any break through. because unless we have leadership that goes beyond the comfort zone and was maligned for touring with gingrich but you got to break these cycles and say we have a crisis and if we don't deal with i want as a crisis we won't solve a real crisis. >> again i totally agree with that. it takes a village. this is a comprehensive issue. one of the really interesting things they do a lot of interviews around their tests. they found things if a parent simply says the most simple thing what did you do at school today, how did you do at school today, just that signal can be hugely important. the same for kids, again if you unpack the scores what you find in the successful schools it's that kids feel ownership over their education, they feel a responsibility and they understand the direct connection between their performance and the job they are going to have.

so, i want to blame it all on teachers, and we want to outsource this problem to teachers the way we outsource afghanistan or iraq to 1% of the population. you cannot do this. it takes a comprehensive solution. >> tom friedman, thank you so much. chuck todd we'll see you coming up on "the daily rundown." tina brown thank you as well. >> happy holidays. >> up next. invisible child how the story of this 11-year-old speaks volumes about the devastating reach of poverty in america. she's rofiled in a powerful new series and its author joins us next. but first bill karins with a check on forecast. bill? >> our mini snowstorm has arrived just in time for our "morning rush" hour from virginia now to maryland and delaware and soon philadelphia to new york city. let me take you into washington, d.c. it's been over 1,000 days since washington, d.c. has had two inches of snow. it's crazy snow drought there in d.c. look at this.

there are under a winter storm warning. there's nothing on the ground and it's been sleeting mixed with rain and even snowflakes. nothing on the ground in downtown. outside of d.c. and the burbs are much worse. this is leesburg. leesburg, virginia one to two inches on the ground. roads are slushy. that's the scene. many suburbs but the big cities may look more like d.c. including philadelphia and new york city. one of the spots noticing heavy snow between sterling and silver spring. we have dillon dryer live there. i showed the white house lawn green. different story north of you. >> reporter: here it is not so nice. started about 6:30 this morning. very lightly at first and then it just came down hard. i'd say we have about half an inch maybe a little over that. so it's just starting to accumulate now. for the first time i'm starting to see the traffic slow down just little bit.

it was going still at a pretty decent speed but the roads are starting to look messier. most of the snow we're going to get at least in potomac, maryland we should end up with five inches or so and should fall before 11:00 this morning. we don't have that much time before 11:00 meaning it's going to come down at snowfall rates of one to two inches per hour and that's what reduces visibility and makes conditions very poor for drivers. so i think it will catch some people off guard. >> let me give everybody their snow map. remember the roads will not be accumulating this much button grassy surfaces we'll see that much. two three inches in central park in new york city. philadelphia three to five. you have the snowstorm over the weekend so easy for the snow to accumulate on top of the snow you already have. d.c. two to three inches. i may have to choipt down to an inch. as you saw just north d.c. easily get your two to three inches. the timing for your day again as we go through the "morning rush"

hour the worst of vifgt torch of new york city and philly and d.c. by the time we get to noon d.c. is ending, philly and new york your heaviest snow period along with southern new england and by 5:00 p.m. we're done for the most part with just about all of the snow. from now until 2:00 is the worst it. we leave you that shot of leesburg, virginia. drive safely everyone. you're watching "morning joe". people don't have to think about where their electricity comes from. they flip the switch-- and the light comes on. it's our job to make sure that it does. using natural gas this power plant can produce enough energy for about 600,000 homes. generating electricity that's cleaner and reliable, with fewer emissions-- it matters. ♪

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♪ when i start to tell them they think i tell a lie. i say it's in the reach of my arms, the stride in my step. that's me. >> here with us now

investigative reporter for the "new york times," andrea elliot, behind the five part series on the girl you just saw reciting the maya angelou poem. we have thomas friedman and harold ford jr. and reverend al. she began following her last year and describes her living conditions at auburn family residence. in part she writes this. there is no desk or chair in the room. just a maze of mattresses and dressers. a flat screen television rests on two orange milk crates. to eat the children sit on the cracked linoleum floor which never feels clean no matter how much they mop. homework is a challenge. the shelter's one recreation room can hardley accommodate auburn's hundreds of children leaving dasani and her siblings to study, hunked over on their

mattresses. sometimes it feels like too many body sharing the same air. there's no space to breathe cause they breathe up all the oxygen. tell me how you focused in on this one little girl, there's some. >> well, that was precisely the thinking is that there are some and so the best way to really tell the story of this growing population of homeless children was to look at the experience of homelessness through the eyes of one child and the way that i came to this story was just by looking at child poverty and trying to find a story in poverty in general and i saw the number more than 20,000. homeless children in new york and was just really struck by that. it was already a record number for the city. and so i met the family outside the shelter. i was just interviewing people outside and they came out and that's how we met in september

of last year. >> looking on her on video and listening her to recite the poem she's very bright, very beautiful, energetic, fun. >> she is. >> what are her prospects for a girl in her situation. what are her prospects? >> it's very hard to know. she seems like somebody who has all of the odds stacked against her but she's also just an incredibly strong willful whip smart kid who seems to determined. so, rather than trying to judge the prospects, i really just wanted to see how she survived the present which for this family it's really just a day-by-day thing. but i think that what's very important and today's story gets into this more is the role of her school. this is really her bedrock. and this is the place for homeless children, not just in

new york city but around the country there are roughly 1.2 million school-age homeless children around the country. enrolled in schools. this is the place for deciding for others that becomes their home. >> their structure, their ritual. >> i atheist very important. when i read the story yesterday around 5:00 in the morning it was so compelling to me because one, many of us that are advocates talk about 22,000 homeless children. this was the right girl, the right family and the way you wrote it was in such a right tone right before christmas is so compelling. i think when i read this morning many people don't understand that -- and i want goes back to tom friedman's segment what school means to people that are homeless and others. i grew up in a single parent home so school was also part of a family thing that i don't think a lot of americans get and

you brought that sensitivity there, just clear facts it was amazing how you did it. >> thank you. >> you've had some analysis of policies and as you think about the outgoing mayor and incoming mayor who is focused on issues of poverty and income in equality and this growing gulf what your takeaways of the kinds of things to address the particular situation faced by these 20,000 kids but how do we avoid another 20,000 kids facing this issue. >> i would really go back to looking at what happened over the last decade and critics of the bloomberg administration traced the problems to 2004 when the administration stopped referring homeless families, giving them priority referrals to long term affordable housing. and replaced that with a rent subsidy program that ended

because the state with drew funding. so now there aren't any viable exits for a family like this one. affordable housing has gone down. so i think a lot of experts i talked to feel that there needs to be new programs in place to help families bridge the gap between low-income wages or in the case of this family they are unemployed, low-income wages that have stagnated over the last decade or by some measures have fallen and skyrocketing housing cost, so-called rent burden. >> let me get to thomas friedman on that, it goes to something you've written about a lot. the two class, the permanent underclass that is really growing in our society. i asked about her prospects, because a girl in her situation and there are so many cannot get by on just her spunk. why should we be okay with her terrible prospects. thomas? >> mika, to put it in the wider

context and it was alluded to this. my friends have written a book called "race against the machine." in the last 15 years or so, something very, very important has happened in the economy, which is that for the previous 200 years, three things rose together. productivity, jobs, the number of jobs and median wages. but because of what i like to call the hyper connecting of the world we've seen now that fracture. productivity continues to go up but employment stays flat or just rises very slowly and median wages have been staying flat and that's because of the increasing role of technology in the economy and if you don't have the skills to make that complimentary to what you do to leverage that you'll have a real problem it gets us back to the education challenge. the question i wanted to ask andrea is that, andrea, tell me the number 22,000.

is that double, triple what it was five years ago? how much did the great recession play in enlarging that number, how much has this been steadily growing. put it in a little context? >> it was already becoming, reaching a crisis level when mayor bloomberg took office. the numbers have steadily risen. he tried -- he threw a lot of resources at the problem. $5 billion at homeless services. the recession -- it's very hard to say what precisely caused there. there are a number of factors. of course the recession plays a role. but it is the highest number on record since the early '80s. >> part two of your series is out today and today's hard copy of the "new york times" and you can read the entire five part series at newworktimes.com. andrea elliot, thank you so much for your work. still ahead why a top democratic

contender for president may be taking himself out of the running. that's coming up in "the politico" playbook. "morning joe" back in a moment. ♪ ♪ by the end of december, we'll be delivering ♪ ♪ through 12 blizzards blowing ♪ 8 front yards blinding

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in ♪ up next politics of pensions. illinois's governor pat quinn says coming back is critical in saving the state's economy. the public employees are not socon vinced. that's next on "morning joe." (vo) you are a business pro.

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during the ford dream big sales event. ♪ 47 past the hour. it's snowing in washington, d.c. i'm headed there. that should be fun. here with us now from capitol hill, democratic governor from illinois, governor pat quinn. governor, good to have you on the show. >> first let me congratulate you as a governor from illinois for not being in jail yet. good job. >> i don't intend to ever go to jail. we need to clean up an ethicsal

mess from blagojevich. i remember talking to mika, i said we keep working on it. we had to suspend the salaries of legislators and my salary. haven't taken a paycheck since july 1. we worked together and had a bipartisan agreement last week and i signed it into law and -- >> so, governor, what does it do? let's talk about -- obviously a lot of challenges with your state's credit rating. obviously both sides had to come together. give us quickly the broad outlines of this deal. >> well illinois had $100 billion pension liability built up over many decades. we put together a bipartisan agreement to erase the liability. we made provision to minimize the impact on longer serving and lower earning employees. we're not cutting the retirement checks of any retirees. we had to make some changes in

order to straighten things out and that's what we did together. >> what were those changes? >> mostly on the cost of living adjustments. it doesn't go up as quickly. by doing that, that was a very major part of the reform. >> you also boosted the retirement age for current workers. up to like -- it sounds like you guys are doing what a lot of other states are having to do and what our federal government right now is not facing down, right? it's this pension crisis seems to be hitting states, locali localities, companies, everybody. >> the previous segment when we were talking about education and housing and making sure we have human services for our government to help people, well we have to make sure we deal with this pension issue so we don't have the squeeze on our fundamental funding for education. so, that's what we had to do in illinois. it was bipartisan. it was absolutely needed. we got it done. ate good model for the whole

country. >> joe. >> i was going to ask you, governor, detroit had the same issue when it came against the michigan constitution. how is this going to hold up against the illinois constitution? >> it's very important, you have to comply with the constitution, and i think we have. you know, ultimately i'm sure there will be a court test and we'll defend this law. the bottom line is that we have to ensure retirement security for those who are working for our state and those who are teaching. at the same time, we have to make sure we have fiscal stability so we can provide the services needed for the people, whether it's public safety or education. we want to invest in early childhood education. in order to do that, we had to have the pension reform. >> tom freeman, harold ford again for you and governor quinn. this plan that the governor has put forth over 30 years saves $160 billion. obviously, moneys will be directed or redirected to many of the initiatives the governor has outlined. how does this measure up to the template you've laid out for the

federal government? obviously it's small in illinois, but is this the path the federal government should be on as they think about reforms, entitlements and taxes alike? >> well, i think that this is a good model. i think the bipartisan nature really indicates to washington that this is something we can do together, republicans, democrats, and we understand the importance of investing and groeg. we have to invest in fundamental things like scholarships for needy students to go to college, early childhood education, education in general, definitely public safety and helping our veterans who are coming home. these are fundamental things, core things that the people of our state and i think our whole country want done. so government has to find ways to work together for the common good. that's what we did in illinois. i think it is a very good reform, and i think it is a model for every place around the country. >> tom friedman? >> as the governor knows, he can't print money so, they have to face this reality. what is the reality they're

facing which we need to do at the federal level which is, you know, countries don't plan for the future, harold, tend not to do well there. and basically, you know, what the governor has done in illinois, what we need to do nationally is balance the commitment we've made to people who have worked long years for the federal government tone joy a decent retirement and at the same time preserve resources we need to invest in the biggest cohort out there, which is all the americans who haven't been born yet or just been born who are going to need resources to develop the skills and nurture, you know, what they're going to need to be productive citizens in what's going to be a much more competitive world. >> the custodians of the future. that's exactly what tom just said. we have to make sure we invest in our children, make sure they have the best education possible for a competitive world. >> governor pat quinn, thank you so much. >> in one area he's a visionary.

>> what's that. >> yesterday, mike ditka day. that's big. >> the bears had a big win last night. >> and the bears had a big win. >> very nice. thank you. >> thank you, governor. appreciate you being here. >> number 89. >> number 89. >> thomas freedman, thanks very much as well. we'll be right back. thrusters at 30%! i can't get her to warp. losing thrusters. i need more power. give me more power! [ mainframe ] located. ge deep-sea fuel technology. a 50,000-pound, ingeniously wired machine that optimizes raw data to help safely discover and maximize resources in extreme conditions. our current situation seems rather extreme. why can't we maximize our... ready. ♪ brilliant. let's get out of here. warp speed. ♪ he loves me. he loves me not. he loves me. he loves me not. ♪

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up next, former vice president dick cheney's take on governor chris christie's -- >> are you going to be able to contain yourself, talking about dick cheney? >> you watch it and decide. he talks about chris christie's chances of becoming the republican nominee for president. how he thinks his conservative credentials compare. that is ahead on "morning joe." this is the quicksilver cash back card from capital one.

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given the sweep of his life, the episcopal of his accomplishments, the adoration he so rightly earned, it's tempting i think to remember nelson mandela as an icon, smiling and serene, detached from the tawdry affairs of lesser men. but he resisted such a portrait. >> president obama remembers nelson mandela this morning in south africa. the rain has been falling all morning long but the mood there can only be described as jubilant. world leaders and tens of thousands of south africans came to pay their respects to a man who helped free his country from the chains of apartheid. they've been struck by the outpouring of emotion, not just mourn bug celebrations and

dancing. as you saw, it's fitting the service is being held at fnmb stadium, mr. mandela made his final public appearance at the 2010 world cup. tuesday, december 10th. welcome back to "morning joe." reverend article sharpton, harold ford jr. and for bloomberg, juliana goldman. we'll get to the table in just a moment, but first we want to turn to nbc's tracie potts live in south africa. tracie? >> reporter: mika, good morning from pretoria. after today, the focus is going to shift here. that big building behind me referred to as the union buildings. this is the center of government, of administration for south africa, and it's where nelson mandela will lie in state for the next three days. but today, of course, the focus was on that stadium near soweto. the public memorial where we're told as many as 100,000 people packed this stadium in the rain. a lot of them waited as many as

eight hours for the doors to open. the highlight so far has been the speech by president president obama where he talked about nelson mandela as a giant of history, he talked about some of his own personal experiences and how he was inspired by nelson mandela's example. interestingly, he also shook hands with raul castro as he headed to the podium. castro is also speaking here today. that's the latest from pretoria. we're waiting for the crowds to come this way over the next few days. mika and joe? >> tracie potts from south africa, thank you. we have a big show today. actor idris elba, who stars in the new film "mandela: long walk to freedom," will be with us later. in other news, republicans on capitol hill are bracing to push a last-minute budget deal before congress before their winter recess. paul ryan and patty murray are reportedly close to striking a small deal that would avoid another fiscal showdown. yet far from the grand bargain

some were hoping for. the proposal would not reform entitlements or tax loopholes and would do nothing to address the rising federal debt but it would replace some of the sequester cuts. tomorrow is the last fay dey the bill could be in the house, setting congress up for a friday vote which could also limit the amount of conservative dissent. one congressman says, "i'm resigned to the fact that fiscal conservatives always lose at christmas." >> that's not exactly accurate. we also lose all the time at easter as well. >> true. >> our leadership will pass -- will pass horrible things, and then they'll say we dare you to stop everybody from going home for easter. >> there's that. >> we stopped them from going home for easterner 1997, and now i know why that's really hard to do. >> i thought they were okay with the sequester. i'm confused. >> the cut, the budget cuts are especially on defense are getting a lot tougher. s around.ht.

>> okay. so going on with the quote, will i trade a dollar worth of sequester savings today for a dollar worth of mandatory savings ten years from now? no way in hell. that being said, would i trade a dollar's worth of savings today for four or six or eight dollars of savings in the future? yeah, maybe. >> harold, the conservatives are bothered about here, i think it's going to pass, but what they're bothered about is paul ryan and patty murray are saying we're going to annex some money now but we're going to take care of it ten years from now. and we know that never comes to fruition. conservatives are getting ready to get rolled. i think this is going to pass but doesn't stop them, doesn't stop the people at heritage from being frustrated like i was frustrated when people -- if you want to talk about save money, say it in the next two or three years because ten years out those cuts never come. >> we've seen this play over and

over again, and if you are not close to this and follow us like some of us around the table do, you have to wonder why can't they just reach a compromise. it's obvious republicans want entitlement cuts in reform, democrats want a little more revenue. why can't they come together and reach some agreement like adults should? the fact we're celebrating this milestone, if we can call it that, between murray and ryan is very representative of where we are not only in washington but where adults are in washington trying to get things done. so, look, i don't like -- they haven't gone far enough, but i like the fact we're not going to face the crisis we faced a few weeks ago. as a republican -- as a democrat i'm thank that feel the fella you just put up, the quotes, thankful he's in a minority position because we don't want to go back down the path we were just down several weeks ago. >> i think republicans are tired of what -- they don't want a repeat of what happened before. at the same time, we're very

worried about the $17 trillion debt and very worried about the fact that even as the deficit drops long-term debt obligations explode. >> but you're different. if you were there, you'd be trying to work out a deal. i think listening to that comment i think is representative of where a lot of tea party members are who seem to be unwilling to gave little bit to get something they may want in the long term. your approach is different. >> i'm not exactly sure what his approach is, but i'll tell you what -- the lunacy of all of this is that medicare and medicaid is what explodes and 20 years from now takes up every dime of our revenue. we've got to figure out a smart, humane way to take care of people who retire 20 years from now so they have medicaid and medicare and social security. >> in texas there's a new tea party favorite hoping to join ted cruz in the senate. yesterday congressman steve stockman announced he will challenge incumbent -- >> steve stockman. >> yeah. >> i know steve.

he's a guy that brings ted nugent to the state of the union. >> well, he's going to challenge incumbent john cornyn in the state's republican primary for u.s. senate. stockman was not expected to do this. he withdrew his bid for re-election in the house and declared his candidacy just before the 6:00 p.m. filing deadline. the congressman says he's running because senator cornyn, quote, undermined ted cruz's fight to stop obama care. adding, it looks like cruz was right and cornyn was wrong. if you disagree with someone, that's fine, but i really believe you should do it privately, not so publicly. he made a big show of removing his name from the letter sum porting cruz. needs to be held accountable for his decisions and we look forward to a vigorous campaign. with the republican primary three months away, cornyn holds a significant advantage financially with $7 million cash on hand. stockman has about $32,000. >> in this ongoing intermural

war, willie, i don't think this is a wise move far guy. i'm sure the tea party people didn't help him to run. >> right. >> but here's going to be another example of another race that the, quote, tea party candidate lost, the last one in alabama, especially which a lot of tea party members said that guy wasn't one of us. that guy was a member of kook party. >> right. >> the idea that senator john cornyn is not -- >> oh, my lord. i know. >> it's not a plausible argument. steve stockman is right to run, and if he believes that john cornyn is not conservative enough, we'll see what the voters think. >> absolutely. >> but, i mean, his case that john cornyn is not a, quote, real conservative -- >> yeah. you know, cruz refused six months ago to come out and say that he would support either re-election efforts of john cornyn. >> what does that mean?

anyhow, former vice president dick cheney looking ahead at 2016 and the prospects of new jersey governor chris christie. >> i think chris is a promising figure. i don't agree with him on a lot of things. i'm more conservative than he is. chris christie has to do a lot of work to erp the nomination just like anybody else. and i think -- >> do you think he'll blow up on the campaign trail? >> i don't know. i don't know him that well. had lunch with him once. watched him operate. i wasn't a fan of the way he welcomed barack obama to new jersey when the hurricane hit. >> he said he had to. >> well, he was governor of new jersey and he was doing what he thought was necessary. >> you think he overdid it? >> i would have preferred -- i don't know that he had any other choice, frankly, in terms of doing what he was supposed to be doing and what he needed to do for the people of new jersey. but like all of us, we carry what we've done in the past around with us. that's part of our legacy.

and you've got to be able to explain it and support it and get people to understand if you want them to support you in the future. >> i don't understand. he wasn't a fan of what he did in new jersey but then in the same sentence he said he had to do it. why d did he say anything? why didn't he just support him? >> because he's the greatest vice president of all time. >> okay. that was a dog whistle or something. but -- >> and i think sometimes -- >> does he help the party? right now. >> that wasn't very helpful. >> yeah, you know what, it's so funny about dick cheney. the press paints him as like a demon and he had low aprooum ratings. i'll tell you what, a lot of americans are like me. they were glad that cheney was there after 9/11. >> does he help your party doing that, though? >> what did he say that would hurt our party? >> his approval ratings, if he becomes the face of the party for 2016 or becomes somewhat of a -- >> cheney's going to be the face of the party. >> no, but if he's the voice and

representative of the party -- >> he's not the voice. he's on fox business news. >> he if he's the one that stands up there and has to evaluate the christies all the way across the board -- >> the thing is -- >> i'm a democrat. >> i'm not the guy to answer this question. i like dick cheney a lot. >> so do i. but that was speaking out of both sides of his mouth. >> -- last 30 years so i'm the wrong guy to ask that question. i would love to have a party where dick cheney's an elder statesman and colin powell's an elder statesman. and you have -- that's what we had when he won 49 states. we had both wings of the republican party, and i love listening to dick cheney. >> he was speaking out of both sides of his mouth. >> a little more of colin powell. >> i think that if the party did that, that it would help the party. but when you have a party of

stockman and cornyn, it only makes me get the popcorn out and smile. >> and you need someone like him to be clear and positive. >> did you not see the democrats yesterday? fighting like bobcats on this set. >> i missed that. >> we were talking about a story about democratic infighting and then they denied there's democratic fighting and then howard dean and steve ratner fought like bobcats. >> i don't understand. you won't let me speak because you know i'm right. >> nothing makes me sadder and beckham, too, than watching democrats fight like that. >> sitting back with a slurpie and popcorn applauding. >> what i just saw was the former vice president, i like him very much, but that was something -- there was something dils honedishonest about that. >> he's a politician! >> you are so clear. it is so easy for you to criticize the president

vigorously, vigorously. and to use descriptions of things that he said that are -- why can't you call a spade a spade? >> my problem has been that i haven't criticized republicans on this show. is this what you're suggesting? >> no. that was just -- chris christie doesn't deserve -- >> republicans could give you a long laundry list of republicans i have attacked on this show for being done. that's much ado about nothing. you see dick cheney go all crazy. i think you have a crush on this him myself. i think you like it. i think you like that strong, forceful guy, kind of a daddy figure. i think you like dick cheney. >> should i punch him? >> i think you used to drive past him in your rolls-royce having some grey poupon and look up at the cheney house and say, a powerful man. >> that just wnt off the rails. what just happened, willie?

>> i'm not sure we just went there. >> she has a crush on him. >> i do like him very much. >> see there? >> but that was speaking out of both sides of his mouth. >> row i don't see lost me with the rolls-royce. >> my mom drives a white pickup truck, a really old one. >> what's matt lauer doing, willie? i saw some fu man-chu thing yesterday. >> he's got the full beard. >> when is he taking it off. >> he kept it. he had a bushy beard and knocked it down sfoop did you know john podesta is back? >> makes him look frail. tell him to cut it. >> i'll pass that on. pass on the grooming advice. >> has louis bergdorf taken that ugly thing off? >> the one we really need to focus on. >> t.j., has louis taken that thing off? >> he's jumped it, actually. >> he has a mustache. >> it goes like this. >> he shaved that. >> did he?

it's just a mustache now? just shave one side off. i hear john podesta is back in the mix. >> yes, looking -- looking to get his administration back on track after the questionable rollout of obama care. >> are you thinking about dick cheney? >> the president is convinced a close ally to return to washington. "the new york times" reports john podesta has agreed to serve as counsel to barack obama for one year. he led the team in 2008 and has advised the president from outside ever since. he also served as bill clinton's chief of staff for three years. but now podesta will be in charge of bringing credibility and focus back to the obama administration. recent polling shows 53% of americans think president obama is dishonest. and just 4 in 10 think he can effectively manage the federal government. podesta will reportedly help

with issues related to obama care and other executive actions. >> i think that's a great idea. >> juliana. >> juliana, i think that's what people have been, especially democrats on the hill have been clamoring to get people back into the white house that have experience. julia nashgs that looks like a great step. >> yeah. that's right. i think if you look at the other news that's been trickled down over the past 72 hours, you have phil shapiro, coming back to washington from living in new mexico, helping oversee the implementation on the policy side of the health care law. now you have john podesta coming in. he's going to take a koups lor role overseeing health care, climate issues, executive actions. and one thing you hear a lot from people, a criticism often of this white house is that there are so many smart, experienced people who just want to give advice. they're so insular that they close themselves off to that kind of advice. podesta is really positioned to provide that. look, when you see jeff zeins

coming in, phil, these are former obama administration officials so they're already sort of part of that inner circle. podesta has maintained that independence, being part of the obama orbit but not directly inside. and so he's going to be able to bring that perspective, those fresh ideas, and the experience of having worked in a crisis mode at the white house and been around for a really long time. that's something that's really missing in there right now. >> coming up on "morning joe," andrew cuomo has a powerful background and name i.d. he may also have no enter interest in running for president. >> i don't believe that. >> mike allen explains that in the political playbook. but first bill karins -- do the sop pit. if they said wear a coat, don't. >> get your swimsuits ready. >> exactly. >> i think he'd just like to wear a speedo. here's bill. >> there it is. you guys never dispoint me.

good morning, everyone. not being disappointed if you're looking for snow today from d.c. all the way up to southern new england. but for everyone that has to drive to work this morning it's coming in right during the rush hour. washington, d.c., still hit hard at the white house, the hardest we've seen it. the temperatures start at 37, too warm. the grass is green, a lot of it melting as it hits the pavement and the grass. you may still end up with a coating out there. high school leesburg, virginia, already 2 to 3 inches on the ground and the roads are sloppy. that's the story. the roads are better. new york city the smoe snowe has moved in, a coating in central park, but the roelds are wet. as far as the snow totals go, the city itself is all right but the burg, still 2 to 3 outside of new york city, 3 to 5 outside of philly, we've had reports of as much as 4 inches outside of washington. for etch wondering when it's going to end, noon for d.c. and about 5:00 p.m. for hartford and boston. hopefully the roads are clear

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23 past the hour. the morning papers, an officer is fired after shooting at a minivan full of children during a routine traffic stop. the officer seen here, oh, my gosh, opened fire at the van

after the driver became combative. governor susana martinez has condemned the officers' actions calling them unacceptable. no one was hurt in the shoot bug the driver and her 14-year-old son are facing multiple charges, including fleeing from police. the "l.a. times," new research says watching media coverage of upsetting events can cause posttraumatic stress. study says those watches more than six hours of coverage a day of the boston marathon bombings suffered stronger stress reactions than those directly involved. the study reports the same patterns in those who watched coverage to 9/11 and newtown. important to keep that in mind, especially when you have children in the house. "new york daily news," a coalition of high-end retailers and civil rights leaders agreed on a bill of rights to protect customers from so-called shop and frisk practices. the agreement comes six weeks

after a series of racial profiling allegations from black shopper who is say they were targeted for buying expensive luxury items. executives from barney's, macy's, saks, bergdorf goodman and lord & taylor signed onto the deal. reverend al, you were part of it. you were on the front page today. >> i think it's the beginning to get the major retailers to acknowledge there's a problem. we have a long way to go and they still have to deal with these cases. but the acknowledgment of it i think is a good start and we intend to monitor and keep moving forward. >> i like it. thank you for your work on that. "the new york times," nsa documents leaked by edward snowden reveal american and british spy agencies sent undercover agents into the world of online gaming. they believe terrorists could use fantasy games like world of war craft to secretly communicate and plot attacks. spies would create fake

characters to monitor players' activity and conversations. it's unclear if any terrorist plots were stopped. "detroit free press." the u.s. government is officially out of the auto business. nearly five years after congress voted to bail out gm and chrysler, the government no longer owns any stock in e either company. meanwhile, a new study shows the effort to save the other companies, save more than 3 million jobs in 2009 and 2010. >> it proves the investment was smart, america not only got -- we only got our money back but we save jobs and i believe the most important industrial investment of the last 75 years of the auto industry. hopefully detroit sees a reinvention in the next few years. >> all the criticism the president is getting in recent events he has never gotten enough credit for what happened there. >> absolutely. >> we should talk more about it as well and in terms of jobs and saved opportunities, which clearly would not have happened had the president not been as strong and steadfast -- >> he should still get more credit, mika's right, because that's a major achievement.

>> he saved the auto industry. >> he was given credit on election day. that was one of the reasons mitt romney was never viable in ohio and therefore never viable. >> that's a good point. he was given credit on election day. >> which is a very important thing in politics. >> yeah. that helps. but still, it's not something that's mentioned. you know, and the president has certainly been behind a very -- >> we had the democratic convention in detroit in 2016. >> i like. >> smart for either party. right? >> both parties should do it. >> very good idea. "san francisco chronicle." twitter saw its stock price rise the biggest since becoming an ipo. up to $8.74. shares originally sold for $26. it's attributed to the net york's new advertising features. toronto star.

record temperatures in east antarctica. nasa says temps in antarctica hit negative 130 degrees fahrenheit in august of 2010, the coldest temperature ever recorded on earth. scientists say in such extreme conditions it would physically hurt to breathe. there's so many things i could say right now. but i won't. with us now, chief white house correspondent for politico mike allen is here with the morning playbook. we were talking about this earlier. interest, interesting. he's always mentioned as a possible democratic candidate for president. the democrats in the early voting states say there are early warning signs that no cuomo? he's not going to run? >> what we're hearing is those early states saying don't forget about us. they like attention. so those officials in iowa, new hampshire -- >> not true. >> they certainly want the attention. the other thing we're seeing here is such a contrast between what governor cuomo is doing, which is keeping it pretty low

profile. he was in washington yesterday for a fund-raiser, saw a lot of people that had worked for him in hud. was very well received there. stopped by the democratic governors. but that's very unusual. very rarely goes outside the state. vacations in the empire state. has a summer home in the empire state. such a contrast with governor christie, neighboring state, who's everywhere, head of the republican governors association. but a congressman was saying to me off the air that edward cuomo can afford to wait that if he were able to get into the race, he may rise faster. >> outside of mrs. clinton. she's the front-runner. if she decides to not run, andrew could find his way into this thing as quickly as any other democrat likely. >> the problem is unlike christie if he started doing things in early states and fund-raising wouldn't that signal that he's challenging mrs. clinton? >> right.

>> governor of the state she was senator of. doesn't he have to be careful not to do things so he doesn't send a signal that he's taking on hillary and we end up with the media going through this andrew cuomo trying to stop hillary kind of headline? >> so both of them, each of them can afford to wait longer than anyone, which makes it hard fer you're someone else who wants to -- >> if you get dannel malloy of connecticut to jump in you have a tristate -- completely covered at that point. but you were saying something, reverend al, i think goes further than just the media. doesn't it behoove andrew kuo know not to jump in and team hillary would pounce, would they not? >> no question. and in front of the camera and behind the saeps to punish people who are going to cross them. so everyone's giving her space as they should. the way people say it to me is there's not a single sign she's not going to run which is different from saying she's in.

but all the signs for staff, donors, anybody who wants to take the plunge is keep your poulder -- >> don't forget mike's point that cuomo was hud secretary under clinton. many of the people he would tap are in the clinton camp, and many of the donors are in the clinton camp. so there's not a way this wouldn't get a little overlapping kind of ugly if he started making -- >> you remember when andrew and carl mccall ran against each other for governor several years ago and andrew dropped out, bill clinton came and brokered the detente in new york if i remember correctly, reverend, between mccaul camp and democrats as well as andrew. there's a lot invested that the clintons have in cuomo and cuomo has a lot to be thankful for from the clintonings. >> there's a name we're leaving out here. why are whooi aren't we talking about vice president biden? if not her, he'd be the instant front-runner. >> i don't disagree.

mike allen, thank you so much. coming up, long walk to freedom. director justin chadwick and actor idris here with us. my mantra? family first. but with less energy, moodiness, and a low sex drive, i saw my doctor. a blood test showed it was low testosterone, not age. we talked about axiron. the only underarm low t treatment that can restore

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as good looking, give me sophia loren any day. we are the people of this nation. but we don't have power. >> yes! >> we don't have rights! we don't have justice. south africa is now a land ruled by the guard. there comes a time in the life of every nation when there are two moi two choices. submit. >> no! >> or fight! >> that was a clip from "mandela: long walk to freedom." here with us now the man who portrays nelson mandela in the film, golden globe award winning actor idris elba and the film's director, justin chadwick. gentlemen, thanks for being on the show. >> i've already told idris i have to get a picture of with him afterwards. >> i know.

>> how do you -- how do you prepare for this role? >> honestly, the first thing that was important for me is to go to south africa and understand south africans. i had a prejudice before. i was really disgusted by apartheid as a young man. what i needed to understand is how mandela -- what we meant to the people of south africa. that was my first stage of preparation. once i could understand that, i could tackle it. >> was it daunting? >> absolutely. >> responsible for playing mandela. >> everyone loves mandela, but not only that, he's a worldwide citizen. to lay that on an actor, on a filmmaker's shoulders and say portray this man's life is a task. >> justin, how did you -- how did you come to the realization that he was the only one that could play mandela? >> right from the beginning he

was my first choice. >> you knew. >> i knew him from "the wire." but i'm from manchester, england, so i went there, talked to people intimately. they all talked about as a young man he was the star. he'd walk into a room and he had this aura around him. i had an instinct that idris, who always inhabits a role, he's so subtle and he's got such grace as an actor, so he was always the one for me really. that was it from the very beginning. it's brave man that steps into mandela's shoes, particularly the way we were making it. these are real people in soweto. >> i think that was what was so compelling is you actually did it in soweto, like the movie scene. you had the real people there. but idris, you talked about how you went and spent the night in robin's island in a jail cell.

they wouldn't let you stay in mandela's cell but in a cell in the same prison. and it was fashioned right as mandela's cell. >> yes. >> you actually put yourself in the mind of nelson mandela. >> well, i mean, you know, one night compared to 19 years is no comparison. but i really needed to get some context about what it is to have your freedom taken away and to, you know, stay on robin island. robin island, way before it was a prison, it was an island with a history. before it was a prison, it was a place they left people with l leprosy. i needed to understand what it was like to be there for the one night, give me some context. a lot of the film is in prison and we didn't want to do prison acting, portray this as some sort of film. i needed to have a real sort of understanding of it. moo when people play icons and people have been glorified for

good reason, kennedy, can think of others, often the leadership part it and the impact on the world is something you can find as an actor. you can go to south africa and see how he made people feel and what he meant to them. what about the other more human attributes? the imperfections? >> that was so important -- pr the beginning. >> that he's man? >> that he is a man. his life -- there's virtually a 100-year history of apartheid. we wanted to study him as a father, a husband. what he gave up makes his journey even more extraordinary. his capacity for forgiveness. when they took away his freedom, his children, his wife, the love of his life, his land, his basic freedom. that was important for us to study him as a flesh and blood man and a flawed man as well. >> right. >> we had -- naomie harris and i

had dinner with winnie mandela. we had dinner and winnie, i've seen her today on the memorial. she looks so sad. but, you know, when i met her, she was so happy to e see me and gave me a big hug, kissed me on my lips and said, my husband! >> well, now. >> i said, well, there's my research. but she said to me, look, you know, there's been films about my husband, about my family. that's the first time it struck me. this is a family. the mandelas happen to be this worldwide name, almost a brand, but this is their family. and i remember her looking me in the eye and saying, portray him as a real human being, as a man, you know? everyone sees him as this great saint, but he was stern, he had flaws. >> did she share? >> yeah, she did. she absolutely was really open with naomi and both of us were sitting forward like -- at the gracefulness of her and also

sort of -- she was really impactful to our early stages. >> you were with two of your daughters when they found out about the death of their father last week. >> at the prenoomiere in london. another bittersweet moment. he lived for 95 years and really changed the world. he changed the world's perception on so many things. and so although when we open the film, it was a royal premiere and it was a magical moment for us, you know, but then right during the film, you know, we heard the passing of mandela, and, you know, there was a real split. a lot of people at the end of the film the credits roll, we spoke to the audience and said this had happened, we read out the statement. and you could hear an audible gasp in the room, sort of like, wow. it was a bitter speet suite moment because we just watched the film which celebrates his life but, you know, it was just -- >> i mean, within the next day,

we asked them what do we do, the two daughters, and they said the film is true to their father's legacy so keep going. >> most fitting. >> harvey weinstein -- we made the decision, harvey announcing to turn the movie off in south africa out of respect, but there was an outcry from the public in south africa to put the movie back. >> yeah. >> we were told. like, what do you do at this point? >> fascinating. really incredible. you can catch "mandela: long walk to freedom" in select theaters right now. idris elba and justin chadwick, thanks so much. >> thank you guys so much. >> thank you. i hope you're not a man-u fan. a little lig right now. up next, what's driving today's markets. a subaru...

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looking live at rockefeller plaza. expecting a couple inches, maybe. see if we'll get home today. time for business before the bell. couple quick things. the volcker rule expected to be adopted today. will restrict banks' ability to use their own money to some say make bet, some say invest. that will be severely limited. expect it to be a little more thorough and intense than previously thought. this one i wanted to point out, let's go to the market, one of the high-flying stock, you would know this, harold, lululemon. >> is that the company where the guy said we don't make pants for

women with wide thighs? >> yeah. that's right. >> is that that guy? >> that's him, the chairman. he's going the give up his role as chairman. they re-called the pants back in march. you're right. chip wilson forced to apologize when he explained, as mika pointed out, why the pants were too sheer, because, quite frankly, some women's bodies just actually don't work with the pants. >> i'm sad, i'm really sad. i'm sad for the repercussions of my actions. i'm sad for the people of lululemon who i care so much about that have really had to face the brunt of my actions. i take responsibility for all that has occurred and the impact it has had on you. >> okay, wait. >> so he's out. >> out. but i don't understand. because respect you supposed to inspire people to work out and make them feel comfortable? wouldn't you make pants that fit everybody? >> you got it. that's the problem.

the stock has been hugely affected, which is ultimately what happens. the stock is down 8% for the year while the market, the trade's gone up 35%. >> wow. >> a huge impact. >> he's out. >> he's gone. >> he and his yoga pants. >> one other thing to point out from the housing crisis, no one talks about rent. there are 4 million more renters now than there were in wave toen p. >> 4 million. >> 4 million more renters than in 2007 and now the cost to represent is prohibitive for a lot of people so they're getting squeezed. home ownership has shifted and renting has exploded and now some people can't afford to rent. not just talking new york, san francisco -- >> everywhere. >> yes. all across the country. >> thank you, brian. the best of late night is next. keep it right here on "morning joe." mine was earned orbiting the moon in 1971. afghanistan in 2009. on the u.s.s. saratoga in 1982.

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mayor ford made a somewhat unwelcome appearance at the annual santa claus parade on saturday. of all the hilarious hinges he's done over the past year, this might be my favorite. look at how he passes out these candy canes. he just -- he's dumping -- he throws them as if he's feeding pigeons or something.

there you go, kids. what the hell? >> what might be the most shocking revelation yet about the degree to which the nsa has invaded our lives. >> the nsa's activities reportedly did not stop with e-mails or cell phones of foreign leaders. agents also spied on video games. >> what possible reason could the nsa have for this? >> the agency feared terrorists and other criminals would use the games to plot attacks. >> i guess that makes sense since islamic terrorists do like to be surrounded by 72 virgins. boom! oh, yeah! >> up next, what, if anything, did we learn today? (vo) you are a business pro.

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that's why we have ink. we like being in business because we like being creative, we like interacting with people. so you have time to focus on the things you love. ink from chase. so you can. welcome back to "morning joe." time to talk about what we learned. mika? >> it's snowing up and down the eastern seaboard and if you're traveling today like me, you're going to have to pack your patience. >> pack your patience. reverend al, what have you learned? >> we can have a great coming together, at least for one day in the world as we memorialize nelson mandela. and i hope we can make some of that stick. >> no doubt about it.

harold. >> two things. congrats to joe torre on being elected the hall of fame. two, sorkin's story on the evolution towards capitalist thinking. >> speaking of mandela and president obama and south africa, turns out he's stale pretty big deal outside of our borders. >> ehe was up on the jumbotron. >> a lot of people hoping things that inspired them there will come back to the united states and like mandela be able to figure out the way to bring people together. >> we'll see joe give an ovation. >> there you go. >> one day. one day. >> i have a dream. >> i have a dream. keep on -- i'm sure that dream will become realized.

>> what are you talking about? >> wrap it up now. >> if it's way too early, what time is it, mika? >> "morning joe." now time for "the daily rundown" with chuck todd. have a great, safe day, everybody. >> a massive memorial service for nelson mandela this morning. historic gathering of world leaders. and how close are we to an actual nuclear deal with iran? secretary kerry tried to convince congressional skeptics from both sides of the aisle today. we'll talk to the chairman leading that hearing, ed royce. plus, a primary problem for the number two senate republican, an old clinton confidant headed back to the west wing. that and more in today's